The Conjuring: Last Rites planned to de-age its leads for flashbacks, then Vera Farmiga suggested...

Director Michael Chaves, Madison Lawlor (young Lorraine), and Orion Smith (young Ed) explain how they flashed back to the Warrens' early years. The Conjuring: L

Director Michael Chaves, Madison Lawlor (young Lorraine), and Orion Smith (young Ed) explain how they flashed back to the Warrens' early years.

The Conjuring: Last Rites planned to de-age its leads for flashbacks, then Vera Farmiga suggested casting

Director Michael Chaves, Madison Lawlor (young Lorraine), and Orion Smith (young Ed) explain how they flashed back to the Warrens' early years.

By Nick Romano

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September 2, 2025 2:00 p.m. ET

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Orion Smith and Madison Lawlor as young Ed and Lorraine Warren in 'The Conjuring: Last Rites'. Credit:

Giles Keyte/Warner Bros.

- Director Michael Chaves explains how he was going to de-age Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga for young Ed and Lorraine before casting Orion Smith and Madison Lawlor.

- Mia Tomlinson, who plays Judy, was originally cast as young Lorraine until the actress insisted she play the Warrens' adult daughter.

- Smith and Lawlor recall meeting Wilson and Farmiga for the first time on set: "It is intimidating. It's big shoes to fill."

The original draft of the script for *The Conjuring: Last Rites* featured a very different opening. It was essentially a gag, says director Michael Chaves.

A woman thinks her son is possessed, so she calls in Ed (Patrick Wilson) and Lorraine Warren (Vera Farmiga), who find a creepy book that turns out to be *Dungeons & Dragons*.

"They go to the woman and say, 'The good news: Your son's not possessed. The bad news: He's a teenager,'" Chaves — who previously helmed 2019's *The Curse of La Llorona*, 2021's *The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It*, and 2023's *The Nun II* for the horror franchise — tells **. "Even though it was fun and charming, I think that it lacked the gravity. So everyone was kind of like, 'Let's beat that.'"

The new opener, the one seen in the completed film, was "entirely my baby," the filmmaker continues. It's an intense flashback sequence involving the Warrens in their younger years, and while we won't spoil the details of it here, by the time Chaves was done acting out the pitch for the studio, everyone was on board, including longtime franchise producers James Wan and Peter Safran.

There was just one lingering question in the room: "What are you thinking about for young Ed and Lorraine Warren?"

Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga as Ed and Lorraine Warren in 'The Conjuring: Last Rites'.

Giles Keyte/Warner Bros.

"My answer," Chaves says, "with full confidence, without a doubt, was, 'No problem. We're going to de-age them.'"

Wilson and Farmiga planned to portray their characters' younger selves and, similar to how Marvel de-aged Robert Downey Jr. for *Captain America: Civil War* or Mark Hamill for *Star Wars* series *The Mandalorian*, CG technology would take care of the rest. However, once Chaves dug a bit deeper into the logistics, he felt uneasy, a feeling he largely kept to himself until...

"Out of the blue, Vera gives me a call and, almost like she's a psychic herself, she's just like, 'You know what? I have a feeling on this. I think you should cast it,'" Chaves recalls. "At first, it was this weird feeling that is confirming my fears, but it is also a tremendous monkey wrench in the whole thing. I convinced the producers, everyone's in agreement, and when you get everyone in agreement, it is now very hard to change course."

Madison Lawlor (*Green and Gold*) and Orion Smith (*On the Run*) now appear as the happy demon-hunting couple in their younger years, when *The Conjuring: Last Rites* opens in theaters this weekend. Chaves' wife, commercial casting director Dina Buglione, took up the challenge to find these two stars, who, Chaves notes, "were the sweet spot of the look and incredible performance."

"The way [Vera] articulated it was...When you see Patrick and Vera, there's comfort. They are kind of sacred and everything works out and you're very aware of them. If you're seeing a new Ed and Lorraine Warren, something is a little unsteady about that," Chaves explains. "I think it makes it a little bit more off-kilter. I shared that with the studio. There was hesitation. Everyone was like, 'I don't know if we could do this.' The proof's in the pudding. We gotta cast it."

Finding young Ed and Lorraine

Madison Lawlor and Orion Smith as young Lorraine and Ed in 'The Conjuring: Last Rites'.

Giles Keyte/Warner Bros.

When EW speaks with Lawlor and Smith, they are still abuzz from seeing the finished film for the first time at a *Conjuring: Last Rites* screening event the previous night. Now they gather together over Zoom from different locations.

"It felt so intense while we were filming it," Lawlor comments. "The scenes are super intense, but we shot it from so many different angles. There's one part of it that we shot over three days, and you're like, 'Gosh! What are they gonna use?' It edited together better than I could have imagined."

Chaves first cast Mia Tomlinson (*The Beast Must Die*), who plays Judy Warren in the movie, as younger Lorraine. The filmmaker brought in "these amazing high-profile actresses in their 20s" to read for Judy, but casting director Rose Wicksteed slipped Tomlinson into the mix. "I'm floored," Chaves recalls of seeing her audition. "She does an incredible young Lorraine. It's the emotion. Tears are blowing up in my eyes."

He proceeded with the rest of casting with the comfort of having found young Lorraine so early in the process, but Tomlinson stuck to her guns. She wanted to play Judy, and Chaves had a feeling it might be a dealbreaker if she couldn't. "I was kind of a little frustrated," he admits. "I move on. I'm like, 'I'm gonna be able to convince her later. She'll play young Lorraine.' We go through the day, all these high-profile actors come in. No one matches Mia. No one touches that performance. There is no better Judy that we ever saw."

Mia Tomlinson as Judy Warren in 'The Conjuring: Last Rites'.

Giles Keyte/Warner Bros.

The hardest part of casting became finding young Lorraine after Tomlinson. They didn't find her in the U.K., where they set up shop for the principal shoot; they didn't find her in the E.U., either. So they searched the U.S. where they found Lawlor.

Neither she nor Smith knew the specific character they were auditioning for in that first round. Smith, however, had an inkling. "You know, I look a lot like Patrick Wilson," he says, laughing. "I got a feeling this [audition side] is from the young Ed, so I'm really gonna lean into this. From the very beginning, I worked with my friend to be like, *What are some mannerisms we can work in here? How can I really try and portray the younger version of Patrick?*"

Lawlor describes the audition scene, which is part of the movie's opening sequence, as a "really, really intense" piece. "It's like 0 to 100 so fast."

On the callback, they were both looped in on exactly what the role entailed. Lawlor received tips from casting on how to portray Lorraine, while Smith took it upon himself to rewatch all the *Conjuring* movies featuring Wilson. Chaves was already in London at the time, but the pair gathered in person with the casting team, while the filmmaker watched over Zoom. "It was three hours long and they shot it from every single angle. We got coverage in our audition!" Lawlor says. "It was a wild experience. By the end, I think Orion and I were just like, 'Whoa! It was crazy. We're exhausted.'"

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When the Warrens met the Warrens

Vera Farmiga as Lorraine Warren in 'The Conjuring: Last Rites'.

Giles Keyte/Warner Bros.

Lawlor met Farmiga for the first time after everyone landed in the U.K. for filming. It was her first day on the stages at the studio, and the team dyed her hair brown. At Chaves' suggestion, the two actresses chatted for about an hour about the character, the *Conjuring* films, religion, and more.

The director also brought out Lorraine's rosemary beads, a signature of the character to help banish dark spirits. Farmiga herself taught Lawlor how to properly handle them the Lorraine way. "It's sort of like getting ready to go boxing," Lawlor says. "I could still do it right now 'cause I had to do it over and over and over again so that I could do it without looking at my hand."

Smith's first meeting with Wilson came a couple days later. He decided to grow out his own sideburns — a signature of Ed's — and by the time he arrived in London, they were quite lengthy. He remembers getting stares from passersby on the street. "Those were the real burns!" he exclaims.

He was nervous to meet Wilson because he didn't know if it was actually going to happen. Smith remembers thinking, "I don't know if we'll share time on set or anything, so I don't wanna bother him."

But it did happen. "We sat down, read every line, went beat by beat and talked about the character and where he is now, his past, the relationship between the historical Ed and the *Conjuring* Ed and how they interweave between each other," he says. "Then we saw him later on set again. Somewhere out there, I think there's a picture of the two of us, with James Wan in between, in full costume as Ed. I think that might be one of the greatest photos of all time."**

It was Wilson and Farmiga who gave their acting counterparts permission to claim ownership over the younger versions of Ed and Lorraine, and not so strictly channel their established performances.

"It is intimidating," Lawlor admits. "It's big shoes to fill, and I think the audience has fallen in love so much, not only with Lorraine and Ed, but also with Patrick and Vera and their portrayal of them. I think that they're the beating heart of the *Conjuring* franchise."

Farmiga, however, was encouraging. "She's like, 'You are younger, you have a different perspective, and that's the energy that we want,'" Lawlor continues. "We want it to feel this isn't someone who's been doing this for years and years and has built up this amazing career."

"Meeting [Wilson] and him saying, 'You'll be fine, trust your own instincts,' was, in my mind, a little bit of permission to be like, okay, there is some leeway here to explore," Smith adds.

A Conjuring prequel, anyone?

A ghost from 'The Conjuring: Last Rites'.

Courtesy of Warner Bros. Pictures

The pair's sequences make a strong proof-of-concept for a *Conjuring* prequel. HBO Max is still developing a TV series set in the world of these horror films, spearheaded by some of the chief architects of the franchise. However, little is known about it and nothing officially has been divulged since the news first came out in 2023. At the very least, the prospect of doing more with younger Ed and Lorraine intrigues the performers.

"I do think there are so many stories to tell," Lawlor says. "I would love to explore what the beginning of their careers looked like, because I think that is so fascinating how they found their footing and built this really amazing empire."

"When did they start using cameras? Ed was a painter. He painted haunted houses before they had film," Smith adds. "He went overseas [to] war. What was Lorraine doing while he was overseas? The artifact room...How do you know that you need an artifact room? Did something happen in the house?"

Chaves acknowledges that, between the fans and the studio, ideas always come up about where to take these stories. For him, *The Conjuring: Last Rites* felt like it needed "that reach into the past" with the Ed and Lorraine flashbacks.

"We're not just reaching back to the first *Conjuring*, we're reaching deeper and past anything that we've seen before," he says. "We're wrapping our arms around it and saying, 'That was the beginning and now you're here at the end.' That's the bookend power of it. So I think it achieved that goal within the movie, and I think that, yeah, it showed that people would be open to seeing their story in different times, in different ways."

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*The Conjuring: Last Rites* opens in theaters this weekend.

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